serbanvcenache
SWF Writers
Posts: 712
Joined: Jan 26, 2013 4:50:56 GMT -8
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Post by serbanvcenache on May 12, 2015 11:48:06 GMT -8
My two cents worth. First, this is an ebook. Word-count doesn't matter. I have a couple of books (box sets) over 750 pages long if they were printed. That's the beauty of ebooks! Therefor length of story doesn't matter either. PERCEIVED value for money for a paid ebook or if a freebie, the investing of time spent by a reader is what makes a reader pick a book. Internal covers would be a waste of time / space. BUT!!!! My main issue would be the setting up of gatekeepers. I have been a part of the Indie revolution for many years and applaud the fact that my gatekeepers are the readers. I gave one Kiwi bunch a very hard time for thinking they should be gatekeepers of writing quality for promoting Kiwi writers, which I was at the time. Guess what? I'm still writing and as I predicted, they didn't even get off the ground. If I have to subject my work to an editorial committee, I'll be no longer interested. I await the flack! Oh, I love this. Having sustained a myriad of debates pertaining to politics in my years, this sort of dissension is a breath of fresh air. What each of us needs to do here is approach each aspect empathically. So we must put ourselves in each other's shoes without loosing track of our own view point. Gary, I understand where you're coming from and I respect the substance of your argument. I know the feeling of contemplating someone else changing even a comma without your knowledge or consent. I also understand Ria and Chels on this one, that they don't want their lines to preceded or follow lines that contain grammatical errors. Especially since such a thing can be avoided. So, in my opinion - if there will be an 'editing committee' who will check for errors - then the corrected version should be emailed back to the author in question, and then the author can say "yay or nay" and that will settle the issue permanently. The corrected words can be marked with a certain colour (say red) in order to make it easier when scrolling down. What do you people think?
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Post by garyweston on May 12, 2015 13:13:52 GMT -8
Here's my take. Do Smashwords / M Coker have an editing committee? No Amazon? No B and N ? No Kobo? No Etc, etc. But it rears its ugly head here. I saw exactly this debate banging on for over a year by a couple of one book wonders in New Zealand who thought they had the right to sit and guard the gates. (and I'm not sticking anyone on here with that tag) The Mantra of the true Indie should always be, only the readers should judge our writing. We should have that tattooed on the backs of our writing hands and remind ourselves of that mantra now and then.
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serbanvcenache
SWF Writers
Posts: 712
Joined: Jan 26, 2013 4:50:56 GMT -8
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Post by serbanvcenache on May 12, 2015 13:33:16 GMT -8
Here's my take. Do Smashwords / M Coker have an editing committee? No Amazon? No B and N ? No Kobo? No Etc, etc. But it rears its ugly head here. I saw exactly this debate banging on for over a year by a couple of one book wonders in New Zealand who thought they had the right to sit and guard the gates. (and I'm not sticking anyone on here with that tag) The Mantra of the true Indie should always be, only the readers should judge our writing. We should have that tattooed on the backs of our writing hands and remind ourselves of that mantra now and then. I understand that, Gary, and I fully agree with it. But this is a joint venture we're discussing, not a solo mission with solo repercussions. I've no problem with either Ria or Chels screening for typos. Like I advocated in my previous post, if such errors are spotted, they should be marked and sent to the author to be made aware of them. And after that, if for some reason (of whatever nature), the author doesn't agree with those edits or does not perceive them to be errors, then it can be decided if it's a deal breaker or not (for both parties). I don't think there will be issues. I'm no gate keeper of anything. I want to get this Anthology moving because I've been advocating such a move for us for a while - and I'm really really happy that Ria chose to take the reins and create a publishing account and make this possible. So lighten up. All issues can be dealt with - we're all artists here and we have no god complexes about others. All of us stand to profit if we work together and stay together to see this project through. It's an investment that costs us nothing in money - and it's totally worth our time.
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Post by Julie Harris on May 12, 2015 14:09:20 GMT -8
Serban, there are a lot of writers out there who do get upset when the tiniest typo is discovered: it's an affront to their dignity, wounded pride = a lot of anger. I have worked with many such people. I agree with your suggestion of any change marked and returned to creator, but these should only be glaring grammatical errors, mis-spellings, punctuation oopsies, missing words and basic typos, nothing major that affects the voice. I'm with you, Gary. Gatekeepers are dangerous beings. A work rejected by one reader will be loved by another. Back in the day when publishers still accepted unsolicited manuscripts, it was a matter of luck whether the first reader who dipped into the slushpile liked your submission or not. If we don't like being judged, we shouldn't judge others. And we don't need to have 'edited by' or 'compiled by'. What we should have, on the cover and in the book description, is a list of authors who have contributed to the work. "A collection of stories by ... (list of authors in alphabetical order)" I've put my hand up to assist. Also wondering why Serban mentioned I no longer publish with Smashwords? Is this only open to people who use Smashwords? If so, I can't contribute.
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serbanvcenache
SWF Writers
Posts: 712
Joined: Jan 26, 2013 4:50:56 GMT -8
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Post by serbanvcenache on May 12, 2015 14:21:39 GMT -8
Serban, there are a lot of writers out there who do get upset when the tiniest typo is discovered: it's an affront to their dignity, wounded pride = a lot of anger. I have worked with many such people. I agree with your suggestion of any change marked and returned to creator, but these should only be glaring grammatical errors, mis-spellings, punctuation oopsies, missing words and basic typos, nothing major that affects the voice. I'm with you, Gary. Gatekeepers are dangerous beings. A work rejected by one reader will be loved by another. Back in the day when publishers still accepted unsolicited manuscripts, it was a matter of luck whether the first reader who dipped into the slushpile liked your submission or not. If we don't like being judged, we shouldn't judge others. And we don't need to have 'edited by' or 'compiled by'. What we should have, on the cover and in the book description, is a list of authors who have contributed to the work. "A collection of stories by ... (list of authors in alphabetical order)" I've put my hand up to assist. Also wondering why Serban mentioned I no longer publish with Smashwords? Is this only open to people who use Smashwords? If so, I can't contribute.Julie, I used you as an example of why we SHOULD accept submissions from non-SWF in reply to one of Chels' posts. I too get frustrated when I discover typos, for instance, a few days ago, I discovered in A Heretical Divide that I ended a verb with a question mark, rather than with a point - although the context of it is an inquiry. That's still an error on my part. But I said to myself, it's not worth it to reupload to Smashwords and all the other places. So again, I know what a writer feels about these sort of things. My aim is to just keep people enthusiastic about this and open to communication. Doing a project in a collective requires a different approach than doing a solo endeavor. I won't use an euphemism to describe it either, all we need to do is negotiate. It might seem as a heartless term, but I think it's quite a pragmatic description.
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Ria Stone
SWF Writers
Posts: 1,055
Joined: Oct 30, 2013 14:12:26 GMT -8
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Post by Ria Stone on May 13, 2015 7:28:29 GMT -8
My two cents worth. First, this is an ebook. Word-count doesn't matter. I have a couple of books (box sets) over 750 pages long if they were printed. That's the beauty of ebooks! Therefor length of story doesn't matter either. PERCEIVED value for money for a paid ebook or if a freebie, the investing of time spent by a reader is what makes a reader pick a book. Internal covers would be a waste of time / space. BUT!!!! My main issue would be the setting up of gatekeepers. I have been a part of the Indie revolution for many years and applaud the fact that my gatekeepers are the readers. I gave one Kiwi bunch a very hard time for thinking they should be gatekeepers of writing quality for promoting Kiwi writers, which I was at the time. Guess what? I'm still writing and as I predicted, they didn't even get off the ground. If I have to subject my work to an editorial committee, I'll be no longer interested. I await the flack! Gary, I understand your concerns. We won't be "editing" any one's work. I felt we should review the submissions to see if there are any glaring problems like: formatting errors, obvious misspellings, etc. I do not intend to read every submission with an editor's eye. Some authors may appreciate another person's take on their work. The only barrier will be if a submission is not selected for the anthology. Personally, I would not buy or download for free a 750 page ebook of short stories. I want something with a beginning and an end that I think I can read through in a reasonable amount of time. I realize that there are "Saga" size books out there and large books do have appeal. We are not creating a Norton Anthology. We are creating an anthology that displays the talent of SWF writers. Plus, just formatting the anthology will take time. I do not want to spend an inordinate amount of time formatting the anthology. I am looking to make a marketing tool. I hope this helps allay your concerns.
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Ria Stone
SWF Writers
Posts: 1,055
Joined: Oct 30, 2013 14:12:26 GMT -8
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Post by Ria Stone on May 13, 2015 7:36:37 GMT -8
My two cents worth. First, this is an ebook. Word-count doesn't matter. I have a couple of books (box sets) over 750 pages long if they were printed. That's the beauty of ebooks! Therefor length of story doesn't matter either. PERCEIVED value for money for a paid ebook or if a freebie, the investing of time spent by a reader is what makes a reader pick a book. Internal covers would be a waste of time / space. BUT!!!! My main issue would be the setting up of gatekeepers. I have been a part of the Indie revolution for many years and applaud the fact that my gatekeepers are the readers. I gave one Kiwi bunch a very hard time for thinking they should be gatekeepers of writing quality for promoting Kiwi writers, which I was at the time. Guess what? I'm still writing and as I predicted, they didn't even get off the ground. If I have to subject my work to an editorial committee, I'll be no longer interested. I await the flack! Oh, I love this. Having sustained a myriad of debates pertaining to politics in my years, this sort of dissension is a breath of fresh air. What each of us needs to do here is approach each aspect empathically. So we must put ourselves in each other's shoes without loosing track of our own view point. Gary, I understand where you're coming from and I respect the substance of your argument. I know the feeling of contemplating someone else changing even a comma without your knowledge or consent. I also understand Ria and Chels on this one, that they don't want their lines to preceded or follow lines that contain grammatical errors. Especially since such a thing can be avoided. So, in my opinion - if there will be an 'editing committee' who will check for errors - then the corrected version should be emailed back to the author in question, and then the author can say "yay or nay" and that will settle the issue permanently. The corrected words can be marked with a certain colour (say red) in order to make it easier when scrolling down. What do you people think? Thanks Serban for the good advice. There is no "Editing Committee", there are people who have volunteered to take a look at the submissions. No one intends to "edit" another's work but I also do not want to publish something with typos or formatting errors or other obvious errors. Most authors appreciate feedback. No changes will be made without the author's permission.
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Ria Stone
SWF Writers
Posts: 1,055
Joined: Oct 30, 2013 14:12:26 GMT -8
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Post by Ria Stone on May 13, 2015 7:42:18 GMT -8
Serban, there are a lot of writers out there who do get upset when the tiniest typo is discovered: it's an affront to their dignity, wounded pride = a lot of anger. I have worked with many such people. I agree with your suggestion of any change marked and returned to creator, but these should only be glaring grammatical errors, mis-spellings, punctuation oopsies, missing words and basic typos, nothing major that affects the voice. I'm with you, Gary. Gatekeepers are dangerous beings. A work rejected by one reader will be loved by another. Back in the day when publishers still accepted unsolicited manuscripts, it was a matter of luck whether the first reader who dipped into the slushpile liked your submission or not. If we don't like being judged, we shouldn't judge others. And we don't need to have 'edited by' or 'compiled by'. What we should have, on the cover and in the book description, is a list of authors who have contributed to the work. "A collection of stories by ... (list of authors in alphabetical order)" I've put my hand up to assist. Also wondering why Serban mentioned I no longer publish with Smashwords? Is this only open to people who use Smashwords? If so, I can't contribute. Julie: If you ever published on Smashwords, you are a Smashwords author. The ebook publishing world is changing constantly as we see on this forum and elsewhere. But, since this is a "Smashwords Forum Anthology" to keep with that theme, it would be helpful if the authors in the anthology had published or will publish on Smashwords. I guess, in effect, if the author is a member of SWF and also a participant in the anthology which will be published on Smashwords, then they would qualify. Again, the point of this anthology is to create a marketing tool for the participants. To get more eyes on our work.
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Post by garyweston on May 13, 2015 7:51:21 GMT -8
CP. As long as the "mantra" of what it means to be an Indie applies, I'm fine with it. My example of the 750 page ebook was simply to say the size is not important so no need to have a fixed size word limit but I understand criteria has to be set. On this basis, I am happy to submit / offer any of my freebies to be included.
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Ria Stone
SWF Writers
Posts: 1,055
Joined: Oct 30, 2013 14:12:26 GMT -8
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Post by Ria Stone on May 13, 2015 8:38:42 GMT -8
CP. As long as the "mantra" of what it means to be an Indie applies, I'm fine with it. My example of the 750 page ebook was simply to say the size is not important so no need to have a fixed size word limit but I understand criteria has to be set. On this basis, I am happy to submit / offer any of my freebies to be included. Thanks Gary.
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Post by garyweston on May 13, 2015 9:18:26 GMT -8
Besides. Julie has threatened to do nasty things to me if I don't and I'll not argue with Julie.
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Ria Stone
SWF Writers
Posts: 1,055
Joined: Oct 30, 2013 14:12:26 GMT -8
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Post by Ria Stone on May 13, 2015 14:36:27 GMT -8
Let's Recap the Anthology Process. Submission due date: - August 1, 2015 Format: Submit in Word doc format, standard formatting, Times Roman 12 pt, Flush left Word Count: 7,000 or less or ? Submit to: Ria.stonemail@gmail.com Submissions to date: 2 Review of submissions Suggestions or changes Title:Title Suggestions: Tales from Indiesby Smashwords ForumTales from Indiesby Smashwords Forum AuthorsCover Art: Several have suggested ideas. Serban will coordinate cover art graphics Format submissions into one document Pre-publication publicity Submit to SW: anticipate to submission in October 2015 Post publication publicity Updates on status I hope that SWF members will advertise SWF and the anthology on their social media. Keep writing!
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Ria Stone
SWF Writers
Posts: 1,055
Joined: Oct 30, 2013 14:12:26 GMT -8
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Post by Ria Stone on May 14, 2015 6:58:23 GMT -8
Julie, on another thread you asked about poetry in the anthology.
I think we should talk about this. I am open to a variety of genres in the anthology.
Let's see what others say.
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serbanvcenache
SWF Writers
Posts: 712
Joined: Jan 26, 2013 4:50:56 GMT -8
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Post by serbanvcenache on May 14, 2015 7:31:43 GMT -8
Julie, on another thread you asked about poetry in the anthology. I think we should talk about this. I am open to a variety of genres in the anthology. Let's see what others say. Sure, I love poetry. It's a shrinking niche, from what I know, but then again... I'm never part of large majorities ^_^
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Post by garyweston on May 14, 2015 10:12:49 GMT -8
If I knew what it took to make words rhyme I'd give it some thought then some of my time But Julie would do it much better than me, so give her some space and then we shall see!
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