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Post by garyweston on Jun 5, 2017 13:57:10 GMT -8
D J. Creatives not free to express our views? I mean, come on. What on Earth have writers ever contributed to religious or political debate?? Oh, right. Everything. Good old Serbs entertained and educated us on politics almost to the exclusion of all else and we love him for it. When I started this thread I was in tears looking at the photo on T V of an 8 year old angel girl having been killed and I reacted with the written word. I've written horror as a genre before now, but I've stopped because the fictional horror is insignificant compared to reality. You and I wanting to commit unspeakable pain on those child killers of the 8 year old girl is understandable, but is it an answer? As satisfying as that would be, would it save another child? I stared out my window today, four floors up, more trees than buildings in this conurbation or so it seems, and I think if North Korea presses the button resulting in our end, would that be a bad thing? In a thousand years the world would heal without us. A blink of the eye in cosmic terms. The book I'm working on turns the magnifying glass on the human race. There has aways been a fine balance between good and evil in our history. I am the master of my book. Writing from the heart, can I find enough good in mankind to save it or shall I wipe us all out to start again? I guess I'll have to write it to find out.
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Post by Ted on Jun 11, 2017 4:47:09 GMT -8
If I had a gun in the house and somebody broke in and was threatening me, and if I could reach for the gun and pull the trigger, I'd probably find out then the safety was on.
Me? I'd rather have three rottweilers than a gun.I do love rotts'. But boy can they eat.
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Post by garyweston on Jun 14, 2017 15:15:45 GMT -8
Another sad day here in the UK. A bad fire in London. Not I S I S related. A whole lot of questions being banded about regarding the exterior cladding, and heads should roll. Culpable people are as guilty as terrorists.
Guess what I live in? A block of flats with exterior cladding. Hmmm.
When I started this thread, it was intended as a temporary one off expression of feelings at the time but disasters seem to be an almost weekly event here now.
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Post by djmills on Jun 15, 2017 19:40:57 GMT -8
Gary, SO, SO SAD!
We had a bad fire in Melbourne that had some sort of cladding, years ago. Could be the same, or different, I just don't know. The inquiry report said the cladding should be removed for all buildings in Australia, but only one or two states have removed them, so far.
And, I remember a big high rise in Dubai (spelling?) also had cladding that set the whole high rise on fire, some time back.
Watching the TV reporting on your tower block fire, they were saying there was only one internal set of stairs built, not the 3 or 4 that was on the original plans. So, yes, I think heads should roll, for restricting access to close by stairwells and for approving changes to the original plans by your authorities (councils? building approval firms?)
When will humans learn from past mistakes and not repeat them in the future? You don't have to answer. I know the answer is never.
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Post by djmills on Jun 16, 2017 17:30:42 GMT -8
Further info on cladding on tower blocks in Australia, and to correct my last comment about a few states already having removed cladding from towers. Some states have started to remove cladding, but have not got very far because of costs.
After Docklands (Victoria file in low, 12 or more levels, high rise) an audit was done on how many high rise towers used cladding in Victoria, NSW, South Australia and West Australia. Over 70% of towers in each state used cladding.
Some owners of Australian towers voluntarily removed cladding, but not many, because of expense to use other non inflammable material. Individual owners of units in one, and possibly more, towers are covering the expense of removing cladding ($3000 paid by each unit) and replacing with non inflammable sheets. But too expensive for rest of apartments to attempt to replace.
And State governments are not legislating for the removal of cladding, because no money to do it. So, one Commonwealth Minister is now trying to push through a Commonwealth law (that will override all state laws) to make cladding unlawful in Australian, but not finalised yet.
So, a lot of towers in Australia could go up in flames like, Docklands, Dubai, and now London.
One building planner told me the main reason stairwells are in corners is because of poisons released in synthetics inside each apartment so the stairwells are placed in corners of towers where they can get fresh air away from poisons. Now that cladding is burning and releasing poisons outside the stairwells, many can die inside the stairwells before they reach the ground, even it the stairwells have air pumped up the stairwell, because of the cladding poisons released when burning, or from the heat outside the building, making the stairwell too hot for humans.
So, using cladding is a disaster waiting to happen on lots of towers around the world.
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Post by Ted on Jun 16, 2017 22:57:39 GMT -8
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Post by garyweston on Jun 16, 2017 23:07:16 GMT -8
It does all seem to be about $$$ here, too. It was the tory gov't who didn't back a call for building regulation reforms and council allowing this and Boy is there a backlash. Had this happened two weeks earlier we would have had a Labour landslide in the election, although nobody would have wanted it to happen that way. I can't see our prime minister staying on as P M much longer. I still have no idea if the cladding on our flats are of the safer type or not. I know checks will be done asap but what happens to us if they aren't safe? There are good alarms and fire doors but no sprinklers. There's a mix of ownership in this block, some council owned, some private landlords, like my flat and some owned by those living in them like the one my pal Mick lives in. When these flats were renovated and cladding added in 2007, with 6 penthouses on the top, they were selling for 100K each flat. Now (pre-tragedy)they go for about 50K and after this tragedy, I doubt they could be given away. Regardless, I doubt any banks would give mortgages to buy flats like this now so those who have invested in places like this must be wondering what happens next. If it is decided to remove cladding and retro-fit sprinklers, we will have to be moved out at least temporarily. Depending on cost, they could even be demolished. We just don't know.
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Post by djmills on Jun 17, 2017 14:46:43 GMT -8
Yes, money, always money. Value of the properties should (I am optimistic) balance out again. I guess the best would be to head for the stairwell as soon as any smoke is smelled, and hurry down and out the building, instead of waiting inside each apartment until the toxic fumes kill, well before the fire and heat would kill. Or, move out of the city to cheaper rental/purchase one or two storey/level property.
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Post by garyweston on Jun 17, 2017 15:50:56 GMT -8
In London, people died in their flats or trying to escape. 20 + levels up in flames in half hour. More than 70 died in this horror. People with breathing difficulties like me would be on our knees in about 30 seconds. Arthritis means getting down four flights of stairs wouldn't be easy. Any smoke and I wouldn't make it that far. If I stumbled trying to get down the stairs, I could easily dislocate one of my artificial hips. I'd better finish writing that book while I still can.
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Post by jjmainor on Jun 18, 2017 7:25:49 GMT -8
For me here in the States, it was like reliving the 9/11 tragedy in that you see these poor people at their windows with no hope to escape and no hope for rescue. Just like the people stuck on the roofs of the Twin towers 16 years ago, you just know every one of those faces belongs to one of the dead now. So hopeless and senseless.
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Post by garyweston on Jun 18, 2017 8:44:57 GMT -8
The repercussions of the fire will be far reaching and change many things, possibly even our government. In the U K there are 4,000 tower blocks, the number with cladding as yet unknown, but there are also schools and other buildings. Sorting this out will be as complex as Brexit (which starts tomorrow) and probably be as costly. I bet right now our prime minister wishes she wasn't. All the opposition Labour party have to do is sit back, keep quiet, let the tories sort the mess out then push for another election. We live in interesting times. www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/grenfell-tower-cladding-banned-in-uk-chancellor-philip-hammond-andrew-marr_uk_59466b3ee4b01eab7a2e4b2a?
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Post by David Ellis on Jun 18, 2017 20:36:56 GMT -8
And I heard earlier that there was another terrorist car incident. My prayers and condolences to you in England.
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Post by garyweston on Jun 18, 2017 21:34:32 GMT -8
Just seen this. Looks more like a revenge attack on Muslims. I did say this has been a long time coming and it's started. Hopefully no more, but I suspect there'll be copycat "eye for an eye" attacks. It is still being called a terrorist attack but it is revenge. A man has been arrested, so we shall soon know.
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Post by garyweston on Jun 19, 2017 1:39:39 GMT -8
Much on our news about this. When I started this thread, I thought it was just me expressing my sadness and feelings for one incident. It seems never ending and possibly escalating. For those not living in the U K, it must be difficult to comprehend. I'm not racist and I'm non-religious. Many others do not share those opinions. after each attack by I S I S, the Muslim community state I S I S does not represent them or their faith and I / we generally accept that. However. Although I'm sure there are Muslims helping to stop the radicalism, also helping the authorities with information, it isn't really obvious to the rest of us. Had the Muslim community done more to stamp out radicalism which reflects so badly on them as a whole, we would have complete solidarity with them. Too late, I suspect, but if Muslims here in the U K start to do their part in an obvious way, there would be less animosity and more solidarity. Many years ago, a local M P, Enoch Evans, was vilified for his "Rivers of Blood" speech warnings on immigration. Let's hope he was wrong and we see no more of this. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech
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Post by garyweston on Jun 19, 2017 4:41:17 GMT -8
I've been assured the cladding on our building is safe. Good to know. I expect a stigma will hang over them from now on,
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